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 Post subject: Connect, disconnect charges
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:56 am
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Location: Athens, Greece
In all 1.x.x a2billing series, we have two fields, connect/disconnect charge. They actually do the same thing: once a call is billed, BOTH of them apply. So, it currently doesn't make any sense if we define the two of them or just the sum at either one.

Would you like this to change in future versions?

Should we have a "connect charge" regardless of answering the call, and then a "disconnect" only if the call was successful?

Any other idea?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:27 am 
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Location: Devon, UK
Yes, I wonder what the original purpose of these two separate charges was. I can't imagine any circumstances where it's of use, so my vote is for unifying them into just connectcharge and applying it if the call is longer than min_duration_2bill.

As for the question of whether to charge connectcharge regardless of whether or not the call connected, the only reasonable release cause to trigger this would be 'CANCEL' and even then my vote is Hell no!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:54 am 
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Of course, one operator would have to be utterly evil to charge anything at a failed call. But, still, that could be the only rare case that two fields would be in use.

Otherwise, we just merge the fields into one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:21 pm 
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Location: Canada
I have used a calling card once. I must be the worst ever. After 4 attempts, the 5$ card was depleted. The phone didn't even ring during the 1st 3 attempts and the 4th received a busy tone. And they customer support was mean. I will get the name of the card for your guy if you want to give it a try. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:04 pm 
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Location: florida
There is a valid reason why people have a connect and disconnect charge. (mind you I don't do this, but I'll explain the reason).

To have a connect charge would be so that you for example have a pay phone or some other reason you want to justify a cheaper published rate. Let us say .10 / minute and .50 connect charge - a $2 card gives you 15 minutes.

Now most of these calling card companies make their money from retrys. The idea is to burn the card on the first attempt and the companies make no money or even lose money. See companies that charge 4 cent / minute to call india for example. Now when you make your call, for that company to make their profit, they charge a "disconnect fee" - this will usually deplete quite a bit of extra money off the card so that they can make their money. In the above example, you were able to talk for 15 minutes, but let us say they had a disconnect fee of .50, then that means if you talk for 10 minutes and hang up the other 50 cent is gone (and many times this is their profit).

Personally, I don't like the practice, but I understand how it works. It tells the customer one price point, and if you burn the card at once, then YES you get that price point (one none of us can match) ... otherwise, the customer ends up paying even more.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:27 pm 
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I think I can't clearly understand the algorithm of that, krzykat.

Do you suggest that the "disconnect charge" will only apply if the customer hangs up *before* the timeout?

AFAIK none of us actually uses any of these /tricks/ till now. But, if we decided to implement one, what would be your favourite?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:04 pm 
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Well, we have no connect and disconnect fees, and we maintains low rate. I don't think that it's a good business practice to have a connect and disconnect charge. The charge is already included in the rate. It's like the cellphone companies and their system access fees. It's just bull crap. Another to assign a name to a hidden fee. For those who want to use it, a better way jo justify it would be with callback service cause the 1st leg consumes some money cause your server called the client.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:08 pm 
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xrg wrote:
Do you suggest that the "disconnect charge" will only apply if the customer hangs up *before* the timeout?


Not exactly, if let us say we charged 75 cents / minute and you have a $2 card, then let us say no connect fee and $1 disconnect fee. Obviously - you can only talk for 2 minutes (at the fee of 75/ minute with minute increments), so they have 50 cent leftover that you can do a disconnect fee of 50 cent, or 75 cents, to take the card to zero or less.

The way most of the "big" guys do it is with "Breakage" - that meaning money left on a card that doesn't get used as phone minutes.

Let me make up an example that all will understand as one I can envision someone doing ... Let's call this card "India Express" - we'll sell it as a $3 card, minute incremental billing, .25 connect fee, calls to India for only 4.9 cent / minute, a disconnect fee of .50, and a monthly fee of .25.

Now - for the customer that means if he burns the card in one use, he gets 2.75 / 4 cent = 56 minutes (pretty impressive) they end up with 56*.049= 2.744+ .25 = 2.794, and the disconnect fee will take the card to below zero. And let us say our cost is 6 cent / minute, then that puts us at 3.36 or a loss of .36

Now - if this same user talks for say 10 minutes, then we get to charge him 4.9 cent * 10 = .49 + .25 connect fee + .50 disconnect fee. Now he has a balance left of $3 - .49 - .25 - .50 = $1.76, and on his next use of the card he can talk for $1.76 - .25 = 1.51 / .049 = 30 minutes. If he talks that full amount, again he'll burn the card, and now only got 40 minutes, or a cost to us of $2.40 and a profit of .60 ... the more he uses, the more we make. One use, we lose money, more than we make money.

That's how the big guys do it. And you say why charge the .25 connect fee, and then the .50 disconnect separate? Cause it lets him talk more on the front side, and plus when the use calls in, it states how much money he has left with that extra .25 connect fee still in his balance and its all about perception.

Hope this is more clear ... I hope I never have to use this methods, but I'm afraid we all may need to some time or other. Let me know if more clarification is required.

KK

Now if this same person talks for 10 minutes, and ha


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:09 am 
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So you're saying announce and timeout based on 'credit-connectcharge', but bill 'connectcharge+disconnectcharge+buycost'. If that's what you want it looks like that's a one line change. In the interests of raising the bar so the likes of apnavoip don't defraud their customers any more I shan't mention which line.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:35 am 
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Well, what happens is Yes - you state talk time based on balance - connect fee / charge rate. And this is indeed what you deduct from their account. It's that the disconnect fee would be additionally deducted after the call. But Yes you are corrrect - the actual cost of the disconnect happens "AFTER" the call, but really it wouldn't matter in view of the user the exact details as the result is the same to the user.

Yes Stavros, you are correct. Well, I think. You announce balance = real balance, for when user dials, they are told you can talk for balance - connectcharge / sell price. And Yes - bill is minutes talked + connect + disconnect fees.

Side note apnavoip ... I see him spam EVERYWHERE and everyone bitches about it.


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