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 Post subject: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
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Is this feature implemented on the new version or not?
If not, is there a way to limit concurrent calls per customer without altering the code?


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
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Hi

It's not yet implemented in A2Billing.

Its straightforward to write some dialplan to use this feature.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Will that dialplan conside the value of each user separately?
So for example one can have 5 channels and some other 10?


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Hi

The way I have planned to write the dialplan, yes, that's how it will work.

Contact me off-list if you want me to write something for you via [email protected]

Yours

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 am 
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I will most probably do so.
Before doing that however I would like to know if the following can be guaranteed on a wholesale setup (that you install):

A) Max channels set per account cannot be broken, regardless of the amount of traffic the user sends AND
B) Negative billing will not happen regardless of the amount of open calls that the user has, when his balance reaches 0 (or minimum credit to call value).

Can you guarantee those two when you perform the wholesale setup?


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
Posts: 4065
Hi

I can't see any way that the dialplan will allow more calls than set, but in terms of giving a guarantee, and given that this is open source software, and the functions we would use to do this were written by someone else (Asterisk team) I would not offer up any guarantees, but I'm confident.

In terms of negative credit, think for a moment how A2Billing manages and bills calls.

1. Customer identified and get balance.
2. Identify the rate to the destination.
3. Work out the maximum permissible time to the destination.
4. Send a dial command to Asterisk and limit the duration to the maximum permissible time. ...L(%timeout%,X,Y)
5. Customer disconnects, cost of call calculated and balance updated.

So you can see that if someone sends many concurrent calls, the balance is the same for steps one through to four for each individual call.

We have the dial balance reservation to reduce the balance by a given amount for every call, which helps alleviate this problem, and limiting the number of channels would further limit the amount of negative credit.

Ultimately, you have to build into your rates a figure to offset any potential negative credit in order to remain profitable. The amount to build in will depend the type of customers you have, the number of customers, whether they are regular payers, and what the maximum number of calls your customers are going to send you, and to what destinations. Being able to limit the number of calls from your side will assist you in assessing how much you have to build in.

Yours

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 188
Hi there.

The five steps are fine when a customer is a calling card with one call at a time permit.
Using A2B with the same steps for wholesale however is very risky, and "knowing your customer" is unrealistic (unless one deals with only a few of them).
I can't see how a business can offer wholesale termination over the open internet without taking such important risks.
What is missing here is realtime billing that will update balances every a few seconds and not after the end of each call.
What is required for the system to become realtime (on a commercial basis i.e when someone buys it from Star2Billing) ?
Is it possible first of all?

Rgds
N


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
Posts: 4065
Hi

As it stands this is not possible. The loads on the platform would be high to check this.

What I mean by knowing your customer is confirming they are a real person, e.g. have an address.

Yours

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 188
What about setting a maximim time per call (i.e 1Hr) and then when a new call comes in to perform the following:

- Lock (reserve) from customer's current balance, the amount needed to call that destination for one hour and then
- place the call-A.
- When the next call-B comes in perform the above steps again taking into consideration however only the remaining balance
- ...
- When call-A reaches the 1Hr, hang up and update permanently the balance (or if call is less than 1Hr, hang up and update the balance)
- ... and so on.

Is this doable?

N

EDIT: Funny/weird coincidence: Your last and my last posts have exactly 1 day difference!


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
Posts: 4065
Hi

That's pretty much what the dial balance reservation does in the agi-conf, with the exception of hanging up.

I suspect that limiting calls to one hour may be restrictive for your real customers, and would not help with fraud, as fraudulent calls tend to be dozens or hundreds of concurrent calls. Limiting the number of concurrent calls, coupled with dial balance reservation should mean that the possibility of negative balance is greatly reduced.


Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:23 pm
Posts: 153
Hi,

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it possible to implement in database : call-limit for realtime asterisk?

when call-limit is set in sip.conf for peer or user - it works.
If it can be implemented then we can set for different simultaneous calls for different user or peer.

Rather than having different dialplan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, dial balance reservation is good.
Is it possible to implement that a2b wholesale user will have only "individual access" , when wholesale user will reach "minimum amount of credit to use the application".

THanks.


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 188
jroper wrote:
Hi

That's pretty much what the dial balance reservation does in the agi-conf, with the exception of hanging up.

I suspect that limiting calls to one hour may be restrictive for your real customers, and would not help with fraud, as fraudulent calls tend to be dozens or hundreds of concurrent calls. Limiting the number of concurrent calls, coupled with dial balance reservation should mean that the possibility of negative balance is greatly reduced.


Joe


It is surely limiting and resctrictive to "real customers" however as I mentioned before it's diffiicult to know the customers so measures have to be taken in order to safeguard the balances.
The question now is : Can you distinguish between restrictive and less-restrictive customers if you're asked to install a wholesale system on a commercial basis?

We need somehow to put a fixed limit to the losses that can occur based on the most expensive rate of a ratecard and the amount of concurrent calls available to a customer. In any case, what method is used is not really important right now, at least for your custoemers.
The bottom line is that the end customers must not be able to keep channels open if a limit is reached (unless of course the type of customer is POSTPAID).

How? Please consider this as a sales question to your company. Not as a casual forum post.
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
Posts: 4065
Hi

I would re-iterate what I have said in earlier posts, which is:

Concurrent call limits coupled with dial balance reservation and minimum credit to call can go a long way towards alleviating the problem of negative balance.

You have to build into your rates a figure to offset any potential negative credit in order to remain profitable, in much the same way that you do for your postpaid customers to account for the possibility of bad debt.

Because of the way that A2Billing works, described in an earlier post, it is not possible to completely exclude the possibility of negative balance, only alleviate your liability by setting your retail rates appropriately, and using the settings such as Dial balance reservation, Minimum credit to call, and limiting the number of concurrent calls.

Yours

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 188
Hi there and thank you for taking the time to right a prompt response.

There is no need to repeat yourself as I do read your posts very carfully.
The current measures (as you describe) are OK for retail customers or low volume wholesale.
The problem is with those are can have either high peaks of legitimate calls or those who will try to break the system and make "free calls" by issuing a too many calls concurrently. It is the latter that I want to restrict.

I understand that A2B, as it is working now, cannot do more than what you described. The point is what can be done as extra development in order to make it even more robust. One example is Rabon's suggestion. Or something else that I might not be able to suggest (but your programmers might be).


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 Post subject: Re: v2.0 Max concurrent calls (Feature not implemented) ???
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 188
Any updates to this please?


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